TSL: 2013 World Championships Men's Preview with PJ Kwong
Our preview of the men's event at the 2013 World Championships with PJ Kwong. With so many contenders, who are your predictions to make the podium? How important should a clean program be? And is booing acceptable in skating or in sports?
I think booing is acceptable! It is the only way the fans can voice their displeasure with the results. That is, other than simply refusing to attend any future competitions. I think the crowds are booing the judges and then the skater 'hands raised in victory' by default. As the skater, you benefited from what the crowd saw as an unjust rewarding of the placement and/or title. Therefore, it is what it is. Just have to suck it up, smile, and remind yourself and press that this was the judges call, not yours.
There are certain groups of figure skating fans who seem to find meaning in life by championing skaters who could be perceived as 'picked upon'. Even if a skater is the beneficiary of major judges gifting, some will cultivate a persona of a 'victim' because it plays into what certain kinds of fans want.
These fans seem to feel that if they whine loudly and consistently enough about their pets being 'unfairly' persecuted, it will shame other fans into silence. To put it another way - the majority of skating fans are women and a major way women have of shaming other women is to accuse them of being 'mean'.
Thus we have whining about Patrick being 'booed'. This is really an implicit type of bullying intended to silence critics.
Takahashi not so good at Japan Nationals? He skated the program of the year in his long program. He may not win Worlds, but if he skates clean, he will win the "for the ages competition."
Yeah, Takahashi's performances at Japanese Nats would've won every other Nationals competition outside of Japan this season (and probably would have won every international event so far too, except for maybe Euros).
Booing is not nice and I wouldn't do it, but it is acceptable. I don't buy the argument that if an athlete makes a certain income level it's okay to boo, or that only teams can be boo'd because no one person will feel bad. It's a SPORT.
If the skater's score is the recipient of the boo, the skater's been around long enough to knows the fans are boo'ing the result, not the skater. Ideally, boo's should occur when the score pops up and then diminish once the skater stands and acknowledges the crowd. A lot of protocol there, but really . . . a boo hurting a skater's feelings? Get tough. Use it to make your self more determined next time.
PS. The PJ series is GREAT. Can't wait for the other ones.
It is not fair to talk about in the same category that what happened in France last year and what may not happened at Japan Nationals. (as far as I didn't hear booing on TV, and my friend who was in the venue didn't notice any booing.) Takahashi's FS was incredibly good and maybe some fans were shocked to see he couldn't win overall, but its not the same situation as Nice. If there is bunch of sigh of disappointment or perplexed all over, who can blame?
I've never seen Japanese fans so angry like this time. We feel insulted. I was there at Japan Nationals and never heard such booing. Booing is a custom of Western culture, not ours. We don't know how to do that. She must show the evidence if she blames certain group of fans as "rascals". Was she there in the venue by herself? Did she see the "incident"? Did she hear the booing?
Who are "we"? I am Japanese and am not angry or feel insulted by her comments. Probably I am no more Japanese than PJ is. PJ stated her opinions about the act of booing without specifically blaming anyone.
I don't know. I still see Javier as a podium fav but not the guy who would win over Chan, Taka or Hanyu if they are on which luckily for him they haven't been. That's just me but you know how skating is...they can just decide to give someone a title for having a nice season...whatever.
Fernandez winning gold at Worlds can become big news in Europe. He'll be the first Spanish figure skater to ever win something as big. He'll go meet the king, he'll take pics with famous soccer players etc etc.
He's also attractive and has a great personality (unlike the reigning world champion).
I can see ISU willing this kind of publicity for the sport.
This year is the first time I've enjoyed Chan's skating and Dave, you want him to RETURN to Krall?
The only advantage I see Chan had between then and now is that in the last few years there seemed to be someone on his old team bribing judges to give him gold medals.
I really admire Chan walking away from that and making an effort to improve his artistry.
Otherwise:
Takahashi bombed Japanese nationals?
As far as fans only booing teams - I guess PJ has never been to or seen a baseball game.
Chan's more enjoyable because he has better programs, as a result of moving from Nichol to Buttle/Wilson. Technically he's regressed. The solution is to continue with his current choreo team but find a real coach.
I can't comment on what Dave/PJ said because I didn't watch. I miss the day when this blog had real posts and not just videos.
Has Chan really regressed that much? I mean he was falling all over the place last year too.
And in the past, he skated like a robot - totally disengaged. Now at least he makes an effort to connect to music and audience.
I wish Dave all the luck in the world with the podcast. I like the text posts too but I think the videos are more likely to lead to him establishing a paying career in skating commentary.
I love Patrick's both programs this season. They are masterpieces. I was impressed by his musicality when he debuted the senior, but hadn't really been blown away for a few years. This season, I see a huge difference. The music suits him very well. I love the choreographic details and beautiful steps. They are great programs and he performs them really well.
I feel that Takahashi might reduce the # of his quads from two to one in his FS. The two-quad program hasn't been working so far. Not only his success rate on quads is like 30%, he often under-rotates and steps out. That's very costly. Morozov may encourage him to make a strategic decision. Yes, he has to wait for others to make mistakes. He could not win the Gold at the Worlds, either. But he really needs to be at least on the podium. Quads can wait. He could win the OGM with a two-quad program next season when they get ready.
Why are there so many posts on booing? They covered a lot of interesting topics. Personally, I wish they had talked more about Michal though. But overall, I enjoyed it a lot. Thanks!
I think Chan is going to win gold. I am not going to predict the rest because I don't want to predict a podium that doesn't include Takahashi. My dream podium is Takahashi, Chan, and Who Cares?
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Chan should go back crawling to Kristy Krall.
ReplyDeleteI think booing is acceptable! It is the only way the fans can voice their displeasure with the results. That is, other than simply refusing to attend any future competitions. I think the crowds are booing the judges and then the skater 'hands raised in victory' by default. As the skater, you benefited from what the crowd saw as an unjust rewarding of the placement and/or title. Therefore, it is what it is. Just have to suck it up, smile, and remind yourself and press that this was the judges call, not yours.
ReplyDeleteThere are certain groups of figure skating fans who seem to find meaning in life by championing skaters who could be perceived as 'picked upon'. Even if a skater is the beneficiary of major judges gifting, some will cultivate a persona of a 'victim' because it plays into what certain kinds of fans want.
DeleteThese fans seem to feel that if they whine loudly and consistently enough about their pets being 'unfairly' persecuted, it will shame other fans into silence. To put it another way - the majority of skating fans are women and a major way women have of shaming other women is to accuse them of being 'mean'.
Thus we have whining about Patrick being 'booed'. This is really an implicit type of bullying intended to silence critics.
Takahashi not so good at Japan Nationals? He skated the program of the year in his long program. He may not win Worlds, but if he skates clean, he will win the "for the ages competition."
ReplyDeleteYeah, Takahashi's performances at Japanese Nats would've won every other Nationals competition outside of Japan this season (and probably would have won every international event so far too, except for maybe Euros).
DeleteBooing is not nice and I wouldn't do it, but it is acceptable. I don't buy the argument that if an athlete makes a certain income level it's okay to boo, or that only teams can be boo'd because no one person will feel bad. It's a SPORT.
ReplyDeleteIf the skater's score is the recipient of the boo, the skater's been around long enough to knows the fans are boo'ing the result, not the skater.
Ideally, boo's should occur when the score pops up and then diminish once the skater stands and acknowledges the crowd. A lot of protocol there, but really . . . a boo hurting a skater's feelings? Get tough. Use it to make your self more determined next time.
PS. The PJ series is GREAT. Can't wait for the other ones.
I would boo the results and scores. I would never boo an athlete. If I don't like them I just wouldn't clap.
ReplyDeleteIt is not fair to talk about in the same category that what happened in France last year and what may not happened at Japan Nationals.
ReplyDelete(as far as I didn't hear booing on TV, and my friend who was in the venue didn't notice any booing.) Takahashi's FS was incredibly good and maybe some fans were shocked to see he couldn't win overall, but its not the same situation as Nice.
If there is bunch of sigh of disappointment or perplexed all over, who can blame?
I've never seen Japanese fans so angry like this time. We feel insulted. I was there at Japan Nationals and never heard such booing. Booing is a custom of Western culture, not ours. We don't know how to do that. She must show the evidence if she blames certain group of fans as "rascals". Was she there in the venue by herself? Did she see the "incident"? Did she hear the booing?
ReplyDeleteWho are "we"? I am Japanese and am not angry or feel insulted by her comments. Probably I am no more Japanese than PJ is. PJ stated her opinions about the act of booing without specifically blaming anyone.
DeleteI think Fernandez is like Surya Bonaly. The judges aren't going to give him the World title.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I still see Javier as a podium fav but not the guy who would win over Chan, Taka or Hanyu if they are on which luckily for him they haven't been. That's just me but you know how skating is...they can just decide to give someone a title for having a nice season...whatever.
ReplyDeleteFernandez winning gold at Worlds can become big news in Europe. He'll be the first Spanish figure skater to ever win something as big. He'll go meet the king, he'll take pics with famous soccer players etc etc.
ReplyDeleteHe's also attractive and has a great personality (unlike the reigning world champion).
I can see ISU willing this kind of publicity for the sport.
This reminds me of the anti-Plushenko campaign before Vancouver by the North American media. It didn't make Lysacek a superstar, though.
ReplyDeleteNow Canada is attacking Takahashi. Who is Kwong trying to make a superstar?
Takahashi being "attacked"? They praised him A LOT. Your theory sounds delusional.
DeleteThis year is the first time I've enjoyed Chan's skating and Dave, you want him to RETURN to Krall?
ReplyDeleteThe only advantage I see Chan had between then and now is that in the last few years there seemed to be someone on his old team bribing judges to give him gold medals.
I really admire Chan walking away from that and making an effort to improve his artistry.
Otherwise:
Takahashi bombed Japanese nationals?
As far as fans only booing teams - I guess PJ has never been to or seen a baseball game.
Chan's more enjoyable because he has better programs, as a result of moving from Nichol to Buttle/Wilson. Technically he's regressed. The solution is to continue with his current choreo team but find a real coach.
DeleteI can't comment on what Dave/PJ said because I didn't watch. I miss the day when this blog had real posts and not just videos.
Has Chan really regressed that much? I mean he was falling all over the place last year too.
DeleteAnd in the past, he skated like a robot - totally disengaged. Now at least he makes an effort to connect to music and audience.
I wish Dave all the luck in the world with the podcast. I like the text posts too but I think the videos are more likely to lead to him establishing a paying career in skating commentary.
I love Patrick's both programs this season. They are masterpieces. I was impressed by his musicality when he debuted the senior, but hadn't really been blown away for a few years. This season, I see a huge difference. The music suits him very well. I love the choreographic details and beautiful steps. They are great programs and he performs them really well.
DeletePJ Kwong's definition of a journalist: a person who can accuse others based on "I've heard blah blah blah" without a direct evidence
ReplyDeletePj Kwong @skatingpj
ReplyDelete1. I don't lie 2.Booing is an English word to convey an idea 3.Subject is now closed for discussion. Tks for being in touch!
It's you that brought it up in the first place, Ms. Kwong. Where is your pride as a journalist?
I feel that Takahashi might reduce the # of his quads from two to one in his FS. The two-quad program hasn't been working so far. Not only his success rate on quads is like 30%, he often under-rotates and steps out. That's very costly. Morozov may encourage him to make a strategic decision. Yes, he has to wait for others to make mistakes. He could not win the Gold at the Worlds, either. But he really needs to be at least on the podium. Quads can wait. He could win the OGM with a two-quad program next season when they get ready.
ReplyDeleteWhy are there so many posts on booing? They covered a lot of interesting topics. Personally, I wish they had talked more about Michal though. But overall, I enjoyed it a lot. Thanks!
DeleteSo how is Hanyu consistent with his 4S?
DeleteHanyu's 4S is not consistent. That's why he attempts it only once in FS.
DeleteI think Chan is going to win gold. I am not going to predict the rest because I don't want to predict a podium that doesn't include Takahashi. My dream podium is Takahashi, Chan, and Who Cares?
ReplyDeleteIt is rare for me to find something on the cyberspace that’s as entertaining and fascinating as what you’ve got here. Your page is lovely, your graphics are outstanding, and what’s more, you use source that are relevant to what you are talking about. You are certainly one in a million, well done!
ReplyDeleteSpanish Fork Lawyers
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