TSL: 2013 World Championships Ice Dance Preview with PJ Kwong
Our preview of the ice dance event at the 2013 World Championships with Canadian journalist PJ Kwong. We gave our opinions and predictions and hope that you'll give yours as well.
Did Marlie make mistakes at Worlds b/c they had one level lower than Voir? Because literally every non-Canadian expert that has opined on the FD thought that Marlie skated better. But I guess it can just be about levels when it's convenient.
Regarding PJ's cheese comment- she's Canadian of course she prefers Voir. She's also known them since they were children. She's biased. Agree that B/S are probably favorites on paper to win bronze, they have improved a lot under Zhulin. Though I/K did win Free Dance at Euros, breaking the !00+ mark so who knows what will happen bc the judges seem to like that hot mess of a program. You didn't mention Cappellini/Lanotte who have been outstanding all season with their Carmen imo and could be top 5!
What Worlds was PJ watching? Meryl and Charlie were clean at Worlds last year. The tech score was quite a surprise.
I loved your question about what kind of cheese Tessa was as Audrey lmao. (And doesn't PJ know that DF was defeated by FF every single time--after the score adjustment at the GPF, too??)
totes agree. And I still don't get that Funny Face performance at all. The true (& tragic) Audrey Hepburn on ice is Alissa Czisny...not Tessa. Last year seemed so schmaltzy except DF.
PJ is a great fan, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's pointless to try to reason with her on Voir vs. Marlie. She will NEVER believe that Marlie should/will win. If Marlie has the stronger FD, she'll argue the difference is in the SD; this year, Marlie has the stronger SD and she says the difference is in the FD. I just wish she owned this instead of pretending like she judges them independently from competition to competition.
Agree. For me, this discussion cemented how useless PJ is as an "unbiased" commentator--she's just a completely biased V/M uber masquerading as a commentator/expert. I preferred hearing Dave and Jenny's thoughts over PJ's thoughts. When analyzing Carmen, at least Dave was giving valid reasons why, for him, it isn't absolute perfection.
LOL. Outside of Canada PJ Kwong has ZERO credibility as an impartial "journalist, and by relying on her as an "expert" you are in danger of losing the credibility your podcasts have garnered you. Shame on you.
But you weren't tough on her. I can understand being gentle with the athletes but a journalist? Come on. That cheese remark was insulting and her Canadian bias destroys her credibility as an expert, and you let her just spin it away. Plus she had little of interest to say apart from admitting Chan is a long shot. Most of the good lines came from Dave. Next time, why not just do the previews yourselves? However... if getting PJ is part of a grand strategy to get Tatiana Tarasova (a theory backed up by the way you guys bring her in at the end of all your interviews) I take it all back!
I still think cheese comment is backhanded. Especially b/c it's not like Meryl and Charlie haven't had brilliant programs that were sophisticated and innovative.
I'm not a pj fan because she doesn't have a neutral view. She is always clearly one sided. I'm trying to decide if I want to hear more comments from someone I view as just a fan and not some kind of journalist.
Does anyone besides PJ expect Charlie to actually portray Quasimodo? I mean, is that really possible? Most people don't even know the story of the hunchback and don't understand the French lyrics. What people see is an emotional and beautiful performance. The difference between these two teams, when they skate clean, is negligible. For me, I prefer D/W's Notre Dame to V/M's Carmen. Someone else, may see it differently. That is what it is going to come down to at Worlds.
I agree that V/M's peak was Flamenco and Mahler. Shadows of their old selves. Carmen may be a fantastic program and a change for Tessa, but you can see it's too much for them technically.
D/W, however, have improved SO MUCH since the last Olympics and are STILL improving (!!), which is mind-boggling. Their sustained technical prowess all these years is once-in-a-lifetime.
I agree... I feel like if both are clean this time D/W should win just like they should have won last year. I don’t know what pj is talking about (annoying) but V/M made a few little mistakes last year. Even Tatiana Tarasova thought D/W should have won last year.
Will watch the video later but remember people PJ HAS to work in Canada and if she wants to keep her blog during events gig she can't really downplay her country's teams. It is obvious from interviews and comps that Tessa is still having problems with her legs. Trust me a lifetime of pain is not worth it. I'd LOVE for 'em to compete but unless there is full recovery they should take the shows they can get while they are young and on top. Moir can do some shows with Tessa and maybe get another partner to compete with if he is so determined.He is young and healthy but I worry for his neck in the future with those lifts.
Biased PJ Kwong's assertion D/W made a mistake at Worlds in Nice last year made me watch the vids again and review the facts. D/W's FD was beautiful. The audience and unbiased journalists thought they'd clearly won. The Technical Caller, Canada's Marie Bowness marked them down. Canada's Jodi Abbott was on the judging panel. There was no U.S. judge on the panel either. Their total score fell 10 points from their GPF victory to Worlds, which is unheard absent a fall. So, I looked back. Since 2009, when D/W face V/M, D/W win more than 60% of the time. Different panels all over the world have deemed D/W gold medalists again and again. Look at 4CC, GPF, WTT, World and Olympic scores. Marie Bowness is slated to be the caller in London. We'll see if there's a US judge on the panel. Having a Caller and hosting the event in V/M's home town isn't good enough? PJ Kwong has to criticize D/W too. How insecure and totally inappropriate.
Ugh. couldn't even stand to listen to the whole thing. I live in Michigan where we can watch the broadcasts from Canada and listening to Kurt and PJ be such relentless homers is a total turnoff. I immediately mute the TV when PJ starts to talk. Uncle Dick may have had his favorites, but at least he could call a spade a spade. I don't know if it is because they are in the iron grip of Skate Canada or what, but they seem to be unable to be critically honest about Canadian skaters. Since I can watch both American and Canadian broadcasts, it is amusing to listen to Tracy Wilson's commentary and note the differences in what she feels comfortable saying about Davis and White when she is commentating for the US audience vs what she says in her Canadian broadcasts. If anything negative happens with Voir on ice there is usually just a silence from the CBC crew. Had any other couple stopped their performance to saunter over to the boards for a few sips of water and conversation wtih the coaches, Kurt would have been all over it. Instead, an awkward few words and silence from the "journalists" on CBC.
PJ Kwong is a fool to have said D/W's FD was brilliant in Nice and they would've won if they hadn't made a mistake. D/W made no mistakes, V/M did and admitted it (a pretty classy day). In Europe and Russia where the media follow Ice Dance more closely, a lot of press talked about the Worlds tech panel having had a Canadian (Bowness) and a French (Hurth) membership and the judging panel having a Canadian (Abbott) and French (Molina) member but no US judge. It was a bit of an uproar but faded quickly--never made it into the US media, nor the Canadian media (for obvious reasons). Now, PJ Kwong brings it up the week before supposedly Marie Bowness is going to be the Tech Caller again. The judging panels at these events are a story...
Great commentary! I still think Scott Moir could be more respectful/graceful in defeat but I suppose that's asking too much?
ReplyDeleteDid Marlie make mistakes at Worlds b/c they had one level lower than Voir? Because literally every non-Canadian expert that has opined on the FD thought that Marlie skated better. But I guess it can just be about levels when it's convenient.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Tessa and Scott have at least one tiny stumble? I can't remember anymore.
DeleteI don't remember any glaring or subtle technical difference between the teams.
DeleteTessa noticeably slipped off her edge in one transition and there were other stumbles.
DeleteRegarding PJ's cheese comment- she's Canadian of course she prefers Voir. She's also known them since they were children. She's biased. Agree that B/S are probably favorites on paper to win bronze, they have improved a lot under Zhulin. Though I/K did win Free Dance at Euros, breaking the !00+ mark so who knows what will happen bc the judges seem to like that hot mess of a program. You didn't mention Cappellini/Lanotte who have been outstanding all season with their Carmen imo and could be top 5!
ReplyDeleteWhat Worlds was PJ watching? Meryl and Charlie were clean at Worlds last year. The tech score was quite a surprise.
ReplyDeleteI loved your question about what kind of cheese Tessa was as Audrey lmao. (And doesn't PJ know that DF was defeated by FF every single time--after the score adjustment at the GPF, too??)
totes agree. And I still don't get that Funny Face performance at all. The true (& tragic) Audrey Hepburn on ice is Alissa Czisny...not Tessa. Last year seemed so schmaltzy except DF.
DeletePJ is a great fan, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's pointless to try to reason with her on Voir vs. Marlie. She will NEVER believe that Marlie should/will win. If Marlie has the stronger FD, she'll argue the difference is in the SD; this year, Marlie has the stronger SD and she says the difference is in the FD. I just wish she owned this instead of pretending like she judges them independently from competition to competition.
ReplyDeleteAgree. For me, this discussion cemented how useless PJ is as an "unbiased" commentator--she's just a completely biased V/M uber masquerading as a commentator/expert. I preferred hearing Dave and Jenny's thoughts over PJ's thoughts. When analyzing Carmen, at least Dave was giving valid reasons why, for him, it isn't absolute perfection.
DeleteLOL. Outside of Canada PJ Kwong has ZERO credibility as an impartial "journalist, and by relying on her as an "expert" you are in danger of losing the credibility your podcasts have garnered you. Shame on you.
ReplyDeleteWe weren't relying on her. We were talking to someone coming from a different point of view.
DeleteBut you weren't tough on her. I can understand being gentle with the athletes but a journalist? Come on. That cheese remark was insulting and her Canadian bias destroys her credibility as an expert, and you let her just spin it away. Plus she had little of interest to say apart from admitting Chan is a long shot. Most of the good lines came from Dave. Next time, why not just do the previews yourselves? However... if getting PJ is part of a grand strategy to get Tatiana Tarasova (a theory backed up by the way you guys bring her in at the end of all your interviews) I take it all back!
DeleteI agree with Judith.
DeleteWe all knew what PJ was going to say, didn't we?
Just to show how 'professional' and affable you can be with someone like PJ?
I still think cheese comment is backhanded. Especially b/c it's not like Meryl and Charlie haven't had brilliant programs that were sophisticated and innovative.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a pj fan because she doesn't have a neutral view. She is always clearly one sided. I'm trying to decide if I want to hear more comments from someone I view as just a fan and not some kind of journalist.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone besides PJ expect Charlie to actually portray Quasimodo? I mean, is that really possible? Most people don't even know the story of the hunchback and don't understand the French lyrics. What people see is an emotional and beautiful performance. The difference between these two teams, when they skate clean, is negligible. For me, I prefer D/W's Notre Dame to V/M's Carmen. Someone else, may see it differently. That is what it is going to come down to at Worlds.
ReplyDeleteI agree that V/M's peak was Flamenco and Mahler. Shadows of their old selves. Carmen may be a fantastic program and a change for Tessa, but you can see it's too much for them technically.
ReplyDeleteD/W, however, have improved SO MUCH since the last Olympics and are STILL improving (!!), which is mind-boggling. Their sustained technical prowess all these years is once-in-a-lifetime.
I agree... I feel like if both are clean this time D/W should win just like they should have won last year. I don’t know what pj is talking about (annoying) but V/M made a few little mistakes last year. Even Tatiana Tarasova thought D/W should have won last year.
DeleteWill watch the video later but remember people PJ HAS to work in Canada and if she wants to keep her blog during events gig she can't really downplay her country's teams. It is obvious from interviews and comps that Tessa is still having problems with her legs. Trust me a lifetime of pain is not worth it. I'd LOVE for 'em to compete but unless there is full recovery they should take the shows they can get while they are young and on top. Moir can do some shows with Tessa and maybe get another partner to compete with if he is so determined.He is young and healthy but I worry for his neck in the future with those lifts.
ReplyDeleteBiased PJ Kwong's assertion D/W made a mistake at Worlds in Nice last year made me watch the vids again and review the facts. D/W's FD was beautiful. The audience and unbiased journalists thought they'd clearly won. The Technical Caller, Canada's Marie Bowness marked them down. Canada's Jodi Abbott was on the judging panel. There was no U.S. judge on the panel either. Their total score fell 10 points from their GPF victory to Worlds, which is unheard absent a fall. So, I looked back. Since 2009, when D/W face V/M, D/W win more than 60% of the time. Different panels all over the world have deemed D/W gold medalists again and again. Look at 4CC, GPF, WTT, World and Olympic scores. Marie Bowness is slated to be the caller in London. We'll see if there's a US judge on the panel. Having a Caller and hosting the event in V/M's home town isn't good enough? PJ Kwong has to criticize D/W too. How insecure and totally inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteI think it's inappropriate and is one of the problems that has caused my family to not watch the sport.
DeleteUgh. couldn't even stand to listen to the whole thing. I live in Michigan where we can watch the broadcasts from Canada and listening to Kurt and PJ be such relentless homers is a total turnoff. I immediately mute the TV when PJ starts to talk. Uncle Dick may have had his favorites, but at least he could call a spade a spade. I don't know if it is because they are in the iron grip of Skate Canada or what, but they seem to be unable to be critically honest about Canadian skaters. Since I can watch both American and Canadian broadcasts, it is amusing to listen to Tracy Wilson's commentary and note the differences in what she feels comfortable saying about Davis and White when she is commentating for the US audience vs what she says in her Canadian broadcasts. If anything negative happens with Voir on ice there is usually just a silence from the CBC crew. Had any other couple stopped their performance to saunter over to the boards for a few sips of water and conversation wtih the coaches, Kurt would have been all over it. Instead, an awkward few words and silence from the "journalists" on CBC.
ReplyDeletePJ Kwong is a fool to have said D/W's FD was brilliant in Nice and they would've won if they hadn't made a mistake. D/W made no mistakes, V/M did and admitted it (a pretty classy day). In Europe and Russia where the media follow Ice Dance more closely, a lot of press talked about the Worlds tech panel having had a Canadian (Bowness) and a French (Hurth) membership and the judging panel having a Canadian (Abbott) and French (Molina) member but no US judge. It was a bit of an uproar but faded quickly--never made it into the US media, nor the Canadian media (for obvious reasons). Now, PJ Kwong brings it up the week before supposedly Marie Bowness is going to be the Tech Caller again. The judging panels at these events are a story...
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